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Season 3 Episode 11: The Anatomy of a Side Hustle Business with Jess Williams

Ever thought about doing a side hustle? What does that even mean and how does it work?

Learn more about side hustling from Techbizgurl founder Jessica Williams and find out that you don’t need to use up all of your free time to have an income stream.

4:30 Jessica’s story and how she started doing side hustle

19:00 Contentment with side hustling

33:19 Jessica shares 21 ways to start a side hustle

More Jessica






What's the worst day you ever had in your business?

I can name a few. I was a five time award winning entrepreneur who burned out because I couldn't give up control of anything in my business. Whether it was because I thought I could do it faster or because I thought I couldn't afford it, I just refused to let anybody else in. Consequently, the business turned from a dream goal into a job I hated, and I didn't know what to do anymore.

In 2015 I closed my business, walked away and started a family life. But I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up after that, and I realized that what I really love to do is Marketing. I love to talk about marketing and create marketing and teach other people how to create value based marketing initiatives that talk to their customers.

I've done it for corporations, for entrepreneurs like you, bloggers and everybody in between. I'm here to help you create your dream empire that gives you the freedom that creates your life the way you want to do it.

My name is Megan Brame and this is Stopped Sucking At Business. Let’s go!

Hey everybody. Megan here. I am so glad to bring this guest on because she and I have very similar backgrounds. But she has an amazing story, and I am so after her. This is Jessica Williams of Tech Biz Girl.

Jessica, thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. My God, I'm really excited to be here.

You know, it did some little stocking ahead of time. And first for everyone listening, Jessica and I were both in a traffic secrets challenge with Russell Brunson and that was a while ago. But, did you finish? I did not finish the book.

I did not finish the book. Yeah. Oops.

Oh, I know, I know it was. It was super intense, I think, if you haven't heard yet Russell Brunson in this year launched another book called Traffic Secrets and it's about how to grow your website, how to get more traffic, how to find more leads. And I got stuck. It was amazing. First off, it's really good, but it is a lot of work. But I feel like you would agree? Like, I feel like it's good work that you should be doing.

Yes, I agree. But it's hard in the sense of like, it's not just, oh, I'm gonna run this ad and get like these 500 subscribers. You have to take a step back and think about who am I trying to reach? You know, what can I do for them? Like, who are my dream customers? Like all that? You have to just take the time to get past a lot of hard stuff which will make all the other stuff easier.

It was, I got stuck. I mean this isn't the topic. But I got stuck on the dream 100 with, like, trying to find websites that weren't blogs because I felt like all of the people I was looking for will go to blogs and that was a separate category. And like, What the fuck do other people? Where do they go to find things?

I know. And then it's hard to ask, too, because I don't it's really hard to get that information like, I think you've literally have to get people on the phone that you think are on your target that are in your target market and asked them actually, the question, you know, or when I found myself doing a lot was, okay, I was my customer a little bit ago. I still feel like I am most days. There's like, what kind of things? What was I looking for? What kind of resource are websites going to? And that's the only thing that kind of helps me through that exercise. But I got nowhere near 100 dream customers.

I feel like this is the perfect segue since you said you were or maybe, still are, your customer. Let's talk about your story.

Right now I am all about helping people start side hustles, mainly because I have been a side hustler for a while, I do see some issues that I have had problems with. One of those issues is that, a lot of times I feel like entrepreneurship is so glorified, especially right now, and not to say the entrepreneurship is bad, but, there's this theme or stigma or what have you about like, Oh, well, you're not real entrepreneur, you know, if you don't go 100% and quit your job and go all in and and I don't think that's fair and I don't think that's correct, a lot of people can't do that even if they wanted to. For whatever circumstances, full time entrepreneurship is hard, right? It's not for everyone. And so, for me, I wanted to give people another option, to do something on the side that they love. But also, there are people out there that also love their day jobs, you know? But they still want to create something of their own. So those are, you know, the types of people that I'm talking to. Mainly when I started my blog back in 2011, I started it because it didn't really just kind of came into existence. Basically, I saw that these women were trying to start businesses and they were getting stuck by the technology piece, right? And so when I started my blog, it was all about let me help them figure out the tech stuff to their online businesses. And, you know, I did that for a long time and you know, then all of a sudden it morphed into me providing services, and we're doing trainings and all this kind of stuff. And what was cool about that opportunity, though, or just cool about that experience in general was that exposed me to a whole different audience of people. I probably never would have met in my career otherwise because, you know, when I started my blog at the time, I was a network engineer. So I was very much a woman in the tech world. And like everybody that I kind of interacted with with somebody in the tech world, you know? And so starting this blog just kind of opened up my eyes to these other networks and these other audiences. And because of that, when I was ready to for a bit of a career change, you know, I was kind of able to talk to that audience and find another opportunity, one that actually led me to being a co leader of a program for women entrepreneurs who were building tech startups and it's like what? It was kind of amazing. But the side hustle that I had been doing up to that point paved the way for that. But what was great about that was one, the side hustle made it happen, essentially, but to it's like wait, I could get paid to, like, help women with their businesses and like, that's my job, you know? And I think it was that that helped me realize that, like, wait, I could probably find a day job that's also fulfilling and meaningful. It makes an impact in the world. And that was an amazing experience. I did that for a little over two years, and it was great, but that was the experience I needed to kind of help me see this whole culture of startups and women startups specifically. And you know how often these women struggled with trying to raise money from venture capitalists or trying to get customers? And these were the women who felt that they had to quit their jobs and go all in on this business. And then I had them coming to me later telling me, Jess, I had to go get a job and feeling like complete failures because of that. And it's like, no, you're not. It just made me so angry. And because they felt so bad about that. And I was like, I just wish there was, you know, there's another way, right? Like, started as a side hustle. Do it ‘til you’re comfortable. You're making enough money. You got your six months or what have you in the bank. You know, you got consistent income, all that kind of stuff and then take the lead because I feel like that some people would be better off if they went that way. And that was when I was kind of like you know, I want to help more people start side hustles, And yeah, I think that's kind of what got me here. I felt like I was on a soapbox from it there. Sorry.

No, that that was fantastic. I have so many questions. Okay, So are you noticing overall women starting more digital services or more physical products? Just an average.

That's a good question. I feel like it's more digital, but I think it's just because that's more talked about that makes sense, I feel like there's not a lot of advice, or at least I don't see is much advice for starting a company, whether it's a hustle or full time with a physical product.

So I think that just in my own experience and when you said like, oh, these women would have to go get day jobs and feel so disappointed I was totally there when I remember I had to tell someone else back when I started my first company that I was like, you have to go get a day job and just like the shame and the guilt on it was like it's so silly because it was like, so what? I have to go and earn money and I'll go earn here and there and it's so crazy. So I think that some people will look at a side hustle, whether it's MLM or creating their own services or things like that and they'll think like, oh, I can do that and then they sit down and they think should I have no idea what to do. When you see someone who is successful with the side hustle. Like where? What is their origin story like on average?

Oh wow, that's a good question. I think a lot of it has to do with, getting clear on why you're starting a side hustle in the first place. I know it's a bit like what? Like that's the thing, but I think that it's really important to understand your motivations behind doing this like making extra money is one thing, but, you know, fulfilling a passion or starting a business or making an impact like you know, those things are gonna govern a lot of things, which is almost like what you'll say yes to and what you'll say no to even when you're picking your side hustle idea and so that's the thing. I keep top of mind all the time because this is hard, right? Like it's you know, I have this conversation a lot, and I'm just like, you know, being a full time employee is hard. Being a full time entrepreneur is hard. But like a side hustler is kind of straddling these two worlds and unfortunately, on the other side hustlers get it right like you. You talk to somebody with a day job, and sometimes they just don't understand some of the struggles and frustrations that you have is a side hustler. So the why is the thing that will keep you grounded and keep you saying and keep you going on those days and it's so easy to start things right? Like it's much harder to keep going? So I would say that's one thing. The other thing is consistency, I think, right. Like whatever that is for you, right? Like I think some people are very much hung up on the oh my God, I have to blog two times every week and stuff like that. But you set your own schedule, right? You don't have to do what everybody else is doing, but what can you do consistently to, you know, grow your blog or get customers or what have you? And sometimes it takes trial and error to figure out what that thing is. But I think once you land on it and once you do it consistently, you'll start to see how it pays off in many, many ways.

So how do you recommend people work on the horribly frustrating balancing act of day job, side hustle, life like, how do you maintain consistency in that kind of lifestyle?

It's hard. It was even hard for me, right? Like I think it's about figuring out, how much time you have, first of all to really dedicate to this side hustle thing, keeping in mind that you do have a day job and you do have a life, right? So, like, I would go super old school, get a calendar, block off everything right? Like, even do markers and all that kind of stuff if you're more of a physical and a lot of person, but really get clear on, like, when do you sleep? When do you eat? When you spend time with your family. When do you work out? Like all the things that are important to you to keep in your life and, really shade all those in whatever that is commute time. Well, maybe not so much now, but when we get back to the world, right? Commute time, all that kind of stuff and then see what's left over. And what that looks like? It could be a couple hours every couple of days. It could be your weakest jam packed. So you're gonna maybe work on your side house on the weekends? It could be an hour here, there, right. Like whatever that is. Be okay with that. Because this is what your life is, and granted, you can always increase it later. But, like, be realistic about what time you do have and then based on that, figure out what you can work into that time period. And that could be coaching calls that could be writing that could be making videos like, I'm not sure what that is for you, but I would figure out how much time you have, figure out how much time it takes you to do things and then kind of figure out what you can do within that time period. I know for me when I first started my side hustle, I was working for a company which I had been working for probably about eight years at that point. So I was very comfortable. I had a lot of time, all that kind of stuff. Everything was very predictable. But I got laid off, and then I had to find a new job. And then once I started working on the job, I basically had no, I had time, but I didn't have energy to work on my side hustle. So then it was like I basically got nothing done for that two or so years I was at that job, which basically led me to want to change that job because I wasn't able to work on my side hustle. So I wasn't getting any type of fulfillment anywhere and I needed that to change. And so when I found my next job, which was a little bit more stable and predictable schedule wise, I was kind of like, okay, and it was pretty demanding those still. So it's like, okay, what is one thing I could do consistently for my people that would help them. And so, you know, at the time it was like, I want to run a newsletter and I want to write it weekly, and that's what I'm gonna do, and it's like if I could get this newsletter done every week then I am good with my side hustle. Now granted, like that might be different for other people. There could be something that they want to do that's gonna make money or something else, whatever that is for me, it was very much like I want to do this newsletter. I want to do it weekly and I've been doing it weekly for the most part for four years, right?

Hey, guys, Megan here just to remind you I have regular Q and A episodes coming out. So if you want your questions answered, head to meganbrame.com/askaquestion and you'll be able to get your question posted, and if I feature it, you will get a free copy of my book, Day 1: A Practical Guide to Launching Your Business. So again, head to meganbrame.com/askaquestion and if your question gets featured, I'm sending you a free copy of my book as a thank you.

And it's been amazing, right? So whatever that is, see what you can work into that timeframe that you can do consistently and what it has done for me is it gets me visibility. It gets people on my list and into my world, like all that kind of stuff, which has been great.

Do you think that there are things that are exclusive to side hustles, as opposed to full time entrepreneurship? I guess I mean, like, tasks, or if you want to frame it the other way, do you think that there are things that are in full time entrepreneurship that you shouldn't worry about with a side hustle?

Ooh, that's an interesting question. Not sure, actually.

Yeah, in my head, it kind of feels like everything is, I don't mean this to be like a negative thing, but like everything in a side hustle is like entrepreneurship light. You know, you still have to do the work. You still have to do the engagement. You still have to do the social media and the product development. All this stuff. But you have that additional balancing act of having this other day job, full time job or whatever, and so you have to kind of take that all in stride. But, yeah, I was just curious. If you could think of anything that is separate.

I don't think there is, but I don't think there is. I just think it's that time factor in that juggling factor, but it's not necessarily different. I just think it's like you said, it's lighter in the sense or maybe harder in the sense, because it's like you're trying to fit it into a little bit of time. But yeah, like you have to do a lot of the same things.

So let's talk about contentment with side hustling. And I don't even mean that in the sense of personal contentment. I mean more like dealing with outside people who, when you like. When you get hit at this crossroads, what are you going to do? Why are you working all these jobs? Why are you doing this when you should, like, how do you, how do you tell everybody to shut up? Just be like, how do you show your contentment with the situations?

Wow, that is an excellent question. You know, I feel like it's easier to do that the older I get because I think I care less about what other people think. And I say that a little bit tongue in cheek because I am very much a people pleaser. But for me, you know, when I started my side hustle even way back when I was just blogging every week or whatever. When I first started, before I started that vlog, I was very much burn out. I was questioning my life. I was like, God, there has to be more to life than this. I wasn't sleeping. I just felt really, really unhappy. And starting that side hustle even though I'm, like, probably no one's reading this book like friends and you know,but it just it just made me so happy. And it gave me purpose again. And what's really weird is like, obviously you have to juggle these things, right? But I felt so energized like I would stay up to like midnight, working on my side hustle and then get up the next morning go to work, and it was like, great and so I always get that from it, you know, and it's like other people might not understand that, but like, it makes me happy. And, you know, for me, it's like I'm just chasing what makes me happy. So and, of course, there's gonna be people that don't get it and don't understand. But, you know, I'm very much like, if you don't like something, you can complain about it, right? You can move on or you can do something to change it. And this is my way of changing my situation.

So how do you recommend people? I'm not even sure how to phrase this. What's in my head is, when is it working, when it is not. I don't know how to phrase that. Do you know what I'm going to get towards?

I think so.This is hard. Like, I think this is hard. I think there have been moments where I've been very much like, I just want to go home, or I just want to stop working and then do nothing else for the rest of the day so why am I choosing to spend more hours workin, almost, and sometimes I don't have an answer for that. And I think when you don't have an answer for that and if you don't have an answer for an extended period of time, that could be a sign that something's wrong. Now that doesn't mean that it's time to quit your side hustle necessarily, right? It could just mean that you’re burned out. It's because of the juggling you could easily lead to burn out, you’ve forgotten why you started this in the first place or it could be that, like, some things, it could be that you're selling the wrong thing to, some things should not be monetized, right? Like I think there's also this pressure to monetize your hobbies. It's like they’re hobbies. They're not supposed to be monetized. They're not supposed to be monetized like I like reading books, but I don't want to get paid to read books because it's gonna take the fun out of it.


But if you don't know that at first, right, like sometimes you have to do it and see and then determine if it's not working. I was just talking to this girl a couple weeks ago, and she was talking about how, like, she loves baking. And so her and her husband would bake cupcakes all the time. And then they opened a business baking cupcakes. And then she realized that, like, she didn't love it anymore. And it was not about the baking process. It was about efficiency. And, you know, how do I do this in the quickest amount of time and all this kind of stuff? And she lost her love for the, you know, the joy of baking, and so she basically scaled it back, like, in a big way and she only does it every once in a while now, so it could just be that, like, I would kind of listen to the glimmers, I guess, or the things that seem not right, because sometimes I think you know. So then it's just a matter of figuring out what's not right about it. Is it the side hustle itself? Is it what you're actually doing? Is it just you need a break, you know, maybe just kind of sit with it and see how you feel, but even if it doesn't work, it's not a failure, right? Like I like to think of pretty much life in general, but especially side hustles is an experiment. It's all an experiment. You put something out there, it sells great. If it doesn't sell great you're gonna learn from it either way. And you could learn like you don't wanna be a business owner, even part time as part of this process and that's okay, so I think it’s try to be aware of what you're feeling and maybe try to dig into the why of it and what's you know, what's feeling off about everything. I hope that answers your question.

It does. I know, I'm sorry. It was just, you know.

No, it's good, but it's like, wow, it's a thinking one.

Stop sucking at your business, the thinking podcast. So let's look at it from the other way about when it is going too well, you are just making money and over fist, and it's taking up your life. So you come to this crossroads of, do I go full time? Do I scale back? And maybe I want to scale back. I want to keep this like, I really love my day job or whatever reason. Like, what are your recommendations for hitting that crossroads?

Oh, that is tough, too. I think for the longest time, I have been of the mind that, like you have a side hustle and then you grow it and then you make that leap at some point blah, blah, blah. And now I have a new relationship with that, and I think we all have to come to that decision. I think for me, for me or I guess, in general, honestly, I think it comes to maybe your risk tolerance at the end of the day, right? So I am very risk averse, and I'm taking baby steps to kind of dip a toe into the risky water sometimes. But you know, figure out what you need to be able to say. Okay, I'm going to quit this and go full time, you know, quit my day job and go full time with this business And I know for some people, it depends on their comfort level. So it could be, I wanna have six months of expenses, all my expenses in my bank account. It could be I wanna or it could be a version of I wanna be making at least this amount of money consistently every month for X months before I feel comfortable taking that leap. Some people don't need all of that. Some people are very much like I know this. I got this. And they need that scarcity almost to be able to say, to do it. Right, they need that extra push because sometimes it's like, oh, well, if I have no money and I have to pay rent in 10 days like I'm gonna figure it out and some people are comfortable with that level of risk. I think there's a lot of pressure to take side hustles full time and I guess I didn't realize how much until I started talking about it, about the fact that, like, I don't think I want to take this full time, and that's ok. And like some people are very much like, Well, why not like you could take it full time, and it's like but don't want to, you know, but yeah, and it's actually part of what I try to tell people I work with very much like, you don't have to take a full time, and that's okay. You can love your day job, and that's okay. But, you know, some people like stability. Not the day jobs are stable, necessarily right.

Not right now, yeah.

Yeah, I know. Right? But benefits are huge and benefits are a huge reason that some people go back to full time employment. Unfortunately, just because health insurance in our country is terrible, unfortunately, but yeah, I mean, I would think about all those things and feel comfortable in the sense that, like, if you want to keep it a side hustle, that's okay. And then you can figure out how you can scale it back to work with your day job. I think there's just so many different ways to work that there's not, like a one size fits all solution for people. And, I think it's like, don't be afraid to be a little bit different from everyone else and it's hard because you have these outside pressures. But I think once you understand, like your why and what you're trying to accomplish and like what you need in your life to be successful, I think that makes it a lot easier to figure out. Do I stay? Do I kinda pivot a little bit? You know, do I maybe cut back my hours at my day job and then do more on the side hustle like there might be some other ways to kind of massage things and kind of puzzle everything together.

It's interesting, and I completely agree. We've talked about all of the ramp up and all of the like, whether it's working, whether it's not working. But let's start at the beginning because it's a very good place to start. So how do you start a side hustle like what are some? And I know that that's a really over broad question. So let's say it's a digital service. What are your recommendations for, like the first five steps of starting a side hustle like that.

Digital service. First five steps. Okay. Let's see. Well, I would start with your why? First why. Why are you offering the service? I would figure out what the service looks like, right? Is it a one hour call? Is it an implementation? A day of implementation? Like what does it look like? Maybe sketch it out right about what you think it looks like. And if you're not there yet and you're trying to figure out what type of digital service to offer? My friend, Shenee Howard has this guide eBook program something called The 100 People Project which is actually about, the whole idea is, talk to 100 people or a significant amount of people and figure out like, what are they struggling with? What types of questions are they asking? What challenges do they have? And from there you will most likely see some themes, right? Like maybe they all have a question about time or you know how to do a certain thing and then from there you can start thinking about okay, what kind of service could you create to address one of those themed challenges, right? So then, once you figure out your service, then it's like, do you set a price on? Some people when they're first starting, they're not comfortable setting a price, which I am one of those people. Plus, I hate pricing. It's just not my not my zone of genius at all. So I would think about either doing it for free and only doing a limited amount for free. So, like, I will do my first five sessions for free because I don't want you to get caught in the hole. I'm gonna do free forever, like, set a limit at the beginning and make sure you get feedback from that. Just because it's like, you're not gonna get paid, get something out of it that you can use to do better, the next time, or set a low price. So maybe it's like a third or a half of what you would probably normally offer. And then I would look for your first few clients, right? Like your guinea pigs, if you will. So you can actually try out this service and then you could tell them that, hey, I'm offering this for free or at a low cost, because this is new. I'm trying it out. I'd love your feedback on the process, etcetera, etcetera and then I would do those few calls or through those few services and then, take some time to really view the feedback. Think about the service. How it went. How did you feel? Did you like it? Like, how would you change it? Like all that kind of stuff and then make a decision as to like, is this the service you wanna offer? You know, revise it, do all that kind of stuff, put it up, and then let people know that, like you're open for business, essentially, and I think those are probably just some initial steps you can use to get started. And then because the more things the more action you take in, the more stuff that you do, the clearer you're gonna get on your next steps.

That was excellent.

Oh thank you.

Right on supply. You're like, Boom, I got this. 12345. So that is my segue into your fantastic guide that I want to hear more about the 21 Steps to Start a Side Hustle.


Please tell me more.

So I know that a lot of people struggle with, like, the whole, like, a lot of people come to me and they're like, Jess, I want to start a side hustle, but I don't know what to do. And so even some of those initial steps that I just covered, you know, it's just like a checklist of things you can use to get started. Like figure out your why, figure out your service, what you wanna offer, get a website, set up a mailing list, like things like that. Just to give you those first few steps, to get situated and then a lot of it is trial and error right after that. So, yeah, I was very, very, very, very proud of my checklist and you get the checklist when you sign up for my email list, which is called Jess Picks. And it's basically Jessica's picks for the week. Every week, I kind of look around the Web and find like the most useful things, that I found that week about side hustling in general so it could be about creating, writing, productivity, health care, all those types of things. And then I'll typically also share, like, what's going on in my life. So if you're on my newsletter, you will know that for example, I broke my ankle back in May and just talking about that journey as well. But people really seemed to love that part of my newsletter. And so I include that and include some articles on and includes some loves, like what I'm watching, reading or listening to that week so it's essentially, it's my labor of love, right? Like I mentioned earlier, it's the one thing I do consistently for my business. And even that has become its own thing, which I very much want to build up in the future.

How is your ankle now?

Oh so I am out of the boot now. I'm walking on 2 feet again but it's still really hard because physical therapy is hard, but I'm hoping to maybe be back. The doctor said about 80-85% probably in about a month. So because he said, you never really get to back to 100% after a break. But it was like, yeah, I really like challenge accepted.

Rooting for you Jess, I know you could do it.

I know, right? I was just like really now? But yes, it's doing much better. But even that has been an interesting journey so far.

I can't imagine, my husband has a terrible sprain on his ankle, and it is just, like, ruined his life. Yeah, I completely sympathize. The foot in the ankle is just, it's not a party. That is a terrible area.

It's not. It's I saw my x-ray, and I'm just like I'm essentially bionic now. But, like, I can’t wait to go through my first metal detector way.

Yes, if we ever get to fly again.

I know right, like, Yeah. Those air screws, in the body. Yep.

They're not tiny little knives. I promise they're screwed.

Yeah, they're not coming out. Not I hope not.

So I wanna ask finally, what are some books or resources that you love that you would want to recommend to somebody starting a side hustle.

Okay, so books, Chris Guillebeau, I love him. I met him once. He's great. He wrote a book. Well, first of all, he has a podcast called Side Hustle School. I think that's correct. But look up. Chris Guillebeau Podcast. He basically talks about a different side hustle almost everyday, so if you're looking for ideas and inspiration for people who created side hustles, I check that out. From that podcast he created a book called 100 Side Hustles. So he basically took a bunch of side hustle ideas from the show along with some other ones, and put it together in a book, which is amazing. I love that just from an inspiration standpoint, and it's interesting to see how people turn things that they wanted to do in their life, things that they can do in their life into side hustles. It's really amazing. He also wrote a book called and I think of it right now. I can't think of it right now. But, Megan, I will send it to you. I think it might be called the Third Way or something like that. But it's essentially about a book told in the form of a story. Essentially, about this guy who, he's working at this job. I think his student loans coming due. He was about to lose his job. He wasn't sure what to do. And then he gets invited to this group meeting where they're talking about the third way of doing business, which is essentially starting on the side as a side hustle. It's a really great book about just a lot of the mental stuff that you go through when you're trying to start something like this and managing all of it. So those are a few resources. I’m trying to think of others. There might be others.

No, those were perfect.

But yeah, I'm a big fan of his. He has a lot of great resources for that.

Well, let's talk about even better resources, where can people find you?

My resources, yes. So I am tech biz gurl pretty much everywhere on the interwebs. So it's a girl with the “u”. So it's techbizgurl.com. You can subscribe to my newsletter Jess Picks there. It's the best way to keep track of, like, everything I'm working on. And yeah, follow me on social media. Like I said, tech biz gurl everywhere because Jessica Williams is not as available as you would think, as a URL.

Fair enough.

Yes, yes. So that's where you can find me.

Well, and are there any final thoughts or anything we didn't cover that you want to cover?

Let's see anything else? No, I would just say that. Like, if you have wanted to start a side hustle, I mean, now is a good time. I'm not saying that you have to be super productive during this pandemic if you don't feel like it, because there's pressure about that too. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. Like who's gonna write like a novel or King Lear during this time? Like you don't have to do that. But if you want to and you know you have some extra time. I'd give it a try. Like, get up and get on my mailing list. Grab the checklist. Asked me questions like, you know, if it's something you've been wanting to do for a while, just take a baby step. To see how you like it. And then you might find that you want to do more so. And if you want to do that, then I am here to support you.

Fantastic. Thank you so much. Jess. I really appreciate you coming on.

Thanks so much for having me Megan, this has been great.

Hey, guys, one more thing before you go. Could you do me a favor and leave a review of this episode? It would help me out so much and get the word out to other people. If you could just drop her review, I would really appreciate it.

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